Satan quotes textual variants
Since we're on the subject of wisdom of words and fleshly wisdom, I want to show you what an ex-King James Bible believer (at least that's what he claims) answered me when I made the following point in defending ONE perfect Bible.
But before that I need to tell you about Isaiah 9:3 to which I referred. I did not present him what I'm immediately presenting below. I simply referred to the verse as you'll see in the excerpt.
Isaiah 9:3 in the perfect King James Bible says
Thou hast multiplied the nation, and NOT increased the joy:
the ASV, New ASV (evolutionist scholars?), RV, RSV, New RSV (evolutionist scholars?), BBE, CEV, WEB, New IV (evolutionist scholars?) all claim that God did increase the joy, contradicting the King James Bible (which is based on the Antiochian manuscripts, not the corrupt Alexandrian ones as the afore-mentioned translations are). In Isaiah 26:15 God increases the nation, but you don't read about any joy because He is removing the nation far into all the ends of the earth, then they pour out a prayer of rescue to God during the tribulation. You see in Isaiah 9:3 He is increasing them as the sand of the sea BEFORE He judges them during the tribulation, leaving a remnant ( see Isaiah 10:22 !). The column in Isaiah 9:3 seperates the church age and tribulation from the millennium. But the scholars couldn't believe the words and get the prophecy. They couldn't understand how the nation could be increased without the joy being increased, so they followed a favourite rule of theirs
"change the Bible to match the scholar's ignorance".
that said, here's the excerpt.
I said:
-"You can use the euphemism of 'textual variants' all you want but some readings are in clear contradiction like Isaiah 9:3 for example..."
He replied:
-"Perhaps you want to call them a contradiction, but I would just say you have an inaccurate definition of "contradiction" as it applies to the work of textual criticism determining the value of textual variants."
Now you look me straight in the electronic eyeball and tell me that's an honest answer.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of EVERY tree of the garden thou mayest FREELY EAT:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt SURELY die.
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, (according to today's most respected scholars, Satan's questioning should here be taken as genuinely inquisitive. Indeed he merely seeks to avail himself of the most accurate rendition of the words of God. To accuse him of casting doubt upon the words of God smacks of unlearned boorishness. After all, did not Confusedius say that the hall-mark of intelligence is the posing of questions? And does not Satan appear in association with the tree of KNOWLEDGE?) Ye shall NOT EAT OF EVERY TREE of the garden? (According to today's most respected scholars, Satan is not contradicting God. He simply plays upon "an inaccurate definition of 'contradiction' as it applies to the work of textual criticism determining the value of textual variants")
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat (according to today's most respected scholars, one should not accuse Eve of misquoting God by omitting the word "freely" because here she is in fact quoting the Septuagint which was written in Greek before creation by 72 angels, and which does not contain the word "freely" in Genesis 2:16) of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST (According to today's scholars Eve here preferred the reading of the MS Pi Beta Kappa n. 5666. In any event "lest" does not deny a possibility of dying and therefore there is no doctrine which is lost, so believers of the King James Bible are flippant conspiracy theorists) ye die.
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
and lol on "According to today's scholars Eve here preferred the reading of the MS Pi Beta Kappa n. 5666". GOOD ONE.
2 Co 11:3, that's a great verse.
Did you notice how The Holy Spirit took that same "lest" word which Eve used and weaved it into the verse 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Isaiah 9:3 You have multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before you like the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
any others? i fear your references are incorrect? What NASV and ASV are you reading?! (questioning glance)
joe
First, to Consecrated, this is worthwhile reading.
Second, I will first quote part of Chapter 9:
Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Isa 9:3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, [and] not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, [and] as [men] rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Isa 9:4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
Isa 9:5 For every battle of the warrior [is] with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but [this] shall be with burning [and] fuel of fire.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
When read in context, it seems like the verse Should Be "Thou has multiplied the nation, and increased the joy." It is all about the gladdening of the people and the Messiah coming.
Can anyone explain why the "perfect" KJV and NASV versions present it as such?
Thanks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Standard_Version
In 1995, the Lockman Foundation reissued the NASB text as the NASB Updated Edition (or more often, the Updated NASB or NASB95). Since then, it has become known simply as the "NASB" and has supplanted the 1971 text in current printings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Standard_Bible
Isaiah 9:3
"Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased their joy:"
ASV, 1901.
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"Thou shalt multiply the nation, thou shalt increase their gladness;"
NASB, 1977 reading (notice they've switched from V for version to B for Bible)
I had a brother in the Lord read me the 1977 text which he happened to have because I suspected that's what you used for the verse and the 1977 text is unavailable on the internet. (at least after looking for it for 45 minutes)
=================================
You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
NASB, 1995 update
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So now I don't know where you got your reading from and what edition it is, but given all the above I hope you'll understand my confusion. If I've missed some edition, please let me know and I will correct the post.
However, your response in the actual post still does not answer the question (or maybe I do not understand what you are saying)
Verse two, says the following:
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
That's all good.
Next:
Isa 9:3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, [and] not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, [and] as [men] rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Even better
The next is even better. THere is no break in the "joyous" stuff....
Isa 9:4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian 9:5 For every battle of the warrior [is] with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but [this] shall be with burning [and] fuel of fire.
are you going to reply to my last comment (the short one--which defines the large one)?
joe
p.s. did you get my email?
Here is the address:
http://veritatruth.blogspot.com/
There is nothing posted yet. however, I will be posting every week.
joe
I regret to say that i have deleted the blog. I started getting addicted to it, and I cannot afford to do that right now. I am sorry. However, I will start the site again during Christmas break.
Thanks
joe
You don't need the distraction of the blogs at this point in your life.
The NASV on the internet had the one version with the "not increase," and I have no idea what the site is.
However, please answer my email. If you did not receive it, I will resend it to you. I need to finish this discussion with that guy.....
Thanks a lot.
Joe
joe
by the way, where are Matthew and Carey? They seemed to have stopped commenting